Josh Wheeler is interviewed on the challenges of proper Facebook ad targeting

Hey guys, it’s Mike Goldstein here again with another episode of The Crushing It with Kitchen remodeling podcast. And for all you Homer remodels, and kitchen bathroom remodeling contractors out there, not only am I welcoming you to another episode of the podcast, but today we have such a special guest. We have an expert in Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube advertising. We have with us one of the foremost Facebook ad coaches out there. Basically, someone who runs a program and teaches others how you can target the right people, and how you can generate income through Facebook ads through Google ads.

And he’s going to shed some light on some of the most recent changes in Facebook’s targeting options, how it affects businesses in the home industry, in the home services industry, particularly in the kitchen remodeling industry. He’s going to talk to us a little bit also about kind of what the opportunities are today through A.I. as well as what you do on your own. And we’re going to do all of that just after this.

And we’re back. So, we’re bringing in with us today as I said, one of the foremost experts in the Facebook advertising area across the country. We’re bringing in with us, the myth, the man, the legend, Josh Wheeler.

How’s it going Josh?

Hey, I’m doing good. How you doing, man? It’s good to see you. You too. Now, Josh, you and I have known each other for quite a while, but for those people out there who don’t know who you are, those who haven’t heard about Josh Wheeler and all of the amazing things that you have been doing in the world of, the digital market in the last 20 years, by the way, shame on all of you who don’t know who he is.

For those who don’t, Josh, who the heck are you? What is it that you do? So, one of the things that we started back in Jeez, I don’t know, 2008 now is working through this world of Facebook ads. That was way back in the day when you only had the little ad up in the right column made a lot of people a lot of money with those little things. But since then, we’ve been able to branch out and really work super heavy with some of the biggest industry or biggest brands in, in some of the home services industries as long as, as well as retail and e-commerce. YouTube, Instagram, basically anything that says ads after it, we get through those paid ads are things that we worked with. And now we have the opportunity to come back in and we help train and teach a lot of people through our ad advisor program. Basically, people who want to do things themselves, but they don’t necessarily have the confidence they can like, OK, we can, we can put that up, we can get one running. But now, what happens when it doesn’t work? What happens when it gets stuck?

And those are the things that we help out with our coaching programs now. So, honestly, it’s the thing that I love to do the most whenever we and people going. I love getting the messages back that we have that say, hey, we put your stuff in place. We took all of your advice and now we have this thing just really cranking because at the end of the day, being able to help a business make more money allows them to hire more people and make their communities better.

That’s interesting. you, you say, when you love getting those messages back, you know about how people are thankful, and then they implement what you’ve done. one of the things I love getting and I just got on these messages the other day. And I was telling you about this kind beforehand is, hey, can you please stop running my ads? I can’t take on any more work. And that’s when you really know you’ve done it right? it’s, it, it opens up a whole different, it opens up a whole different world whenever you can, when you can have that type of impact on businesses. I know firsthand, I see your things and the things that you post up. and, and people should be really, really excited for the opportunity to have a chance to work with you when they can I appreciate that. Now with, with all that said, one of the reasons we want to have you on today is Facebook and Instagram recently have kind of thrown a little monkey wrench into the whole marketing and ad area. and they’ve made it a little bit more difficult to target people who are specifically to target people who live in an area. So, for those people who are in the home services space and, and a great deal of the audience right now, the kitchen remodeler, they’re home remodelers. It might be HVAC guys and you might, you might have some builders in there. You’re targeting people obviously who live in the community. You’re not trying to target somebody who is on vacation. I, I, I run a company in Orlando, Florida. I get, I get 18,000 people an hour coming in to go to Disney World. I don’t want to target those people. So, what, what, what happened? What did Facebook do and why is it such a big deal? So let me give you a little bit of backstory or background on where things are at. So used to up until about three weeks ago when they started rolling these changes out, you had the ability to target people based on whether they lived someplace they were recently at some place or they were traveling someplace now. That means that people were basically over 100 miles away from wherever their Facebook location says that they normally are, right? So, if you were, if you are a tourist-based company that’s in Orlando and you use that anybody traveling in is more from more than 100 miles away, you can run ads to them and it makes perfect sense and it gives relevancy, right? So, you’re like, hey, you’re traveling in, you can do this stuff while you’re here without focusing on people who see that every single day, right? So, what Facebook has decided to do, I say meta, meta, but that’s Facebook and Instagram for those, right? So, whatever, whatever you go through now, they’ve taken away those options. So, they just target anybody who’s in that area. Now, that means that if they’re in there recently, like again in Orlando and some big tourist areas are the ones that are going to be absolutely the most impacted. But it’s not always the case because we run ads for some people that like, for example, my home area where we live in a tri-state area. If you’re trying to focus, if you’re licensed only in, let’s say Ohio versus Kentucky and West Virginia, then it creates major problems because you’re like, ok, well, I can’t, I can’t even show my ads in Kentucky, and I only have an Ohio license. So that’s where it becomes really, really tricky because in a tri-state area like that or in a tri-city area or something like that, there are people that are going back and forth all the time, right? In those, in those areas. So, it becomes a little bit frustrating. We’ve had to, um, we’ve had to really try to, to put some different things in place and start creating strategies to just negate some of those things which I know we’ll talk about here in just a bit. Sure. And it, it’s interesting too when you think about it because, you, you may, uh, you, you brought up a, an interesting point in terms of people who are in a tri city, they travel back and forth. I mean, you may live five miles from the border. But, if you’re a law firm, for example, that that’s advertising or you’re a doctor or someone who is licensing can literally work with someone who’s outside of the state. I mean, that’s a really big deal and you can waste a lot of ad spend now, um, just in that. So with, with that said, I mean, what is really the, what, what are the best practices, what is it that you need to do now in order to make sure that you’re not wasting your ad spend and showing your ads to people who have no, there’s just no possibility of the service though. Well, there’s, it’s unfortunate because there’s no longer way to eliminate 100%. Right. So, there’s still going to be, sometimes you get things that come in, they’re not going to be within your service area. Unfortunately, that’s just going to happen as far as showing ads to people. It’s just going to happen. Now, here’s a few of the ways that you can minimize or negate as much of that as possible. So, number one, you need to be making sure that you’re focused on excluding states, right? So, if you live in Ohio, you only serve Ohio, then all the rest of the states you’re going to have to go through and you’re going to have to exclude them inside of your audience A sets. Ok. Secondly, you’re going to want to go through and if there’s, if you’re only serving a certain mile radius around where you’re at, you’re going to have to do something what we would call pin placement exclusions. So, it’s taking it dropping a pin and saying, OK, let’s do 303 miles around that pin and that allows you to get it really close in to where like, OK, only this is available and then everything else is going to be blocked out, right? So, it’s going to take a little or a lot more work depending on how far or how small that you need that to be. Um, yeah, I was going to say that is that kind of like that. It is, but there’s no, there’s technically no way to do it on Facebook like that. So, for example, if I just for Geo for, for those of you who don’t know, you can take something and just put it around a certain small area. So, we used to do this for like events like, so you would have like a, a civic center or an arena or something like that. And you’re like, oh, I’m going to just go draw a little circle right around there and just target people there. The problem with that now is that it still doesn’t solve the problem. That’s where people inside that circle can still not be from inside that circle, right? So outside of the exclusions, that’s going to be one way that you’ve got to do it. The second piece to this is using more custom audiences. So for example, you might have to go to a place like info USA or data axle or someplace like that, you may have to buy a list and only the certain zip codes that you want to target and upload those to Facebook and only run it to that right now that becomes a little expensive to start out with. But if you want to make sure that nobody can ever like, it’s not showing to anybody outside the area, that’s one way that you would do it because it’s like only being shown to these people right now. Let me ask you when, when you do that. So let’s say I buy a list of 50,000 people in the Sarasota Florida area. No, I don’t want all 50,000 of those people. I only want the ones who own homes because if you’re renting, you don’t have authority to hire me to if I’m a kitchen or mother or if I’m a plumber or anything to that thing. Can you stack those in? Uh, can you, can you stack the, the, the list against ownership and things like that? That Facebook does track well, what you would do is you would just get that in your initial list because most of the time if you go to info, let’s, uh, an info USA is one of the bigger ones. They may, I think they changed their name to data axel. Not 270% sure on that. But with their program, you can say, hey, I only want homeowners in these areas. So, you’re spending a little bit of money on the front end no different than if you were buying a direct mail list, right? It’s really all the same things. Um, but they’re going to give you those personal records and they have the most of them, uh, available. Now, are you going to get 28% match on that list? So, if you buy 210 names, are you going to get 292% match on that? No. Um, but what you will do is you’ll get the, um, a lot of the ones that you want to start showing to and you may have to break it down into small sections. That’s where a bigger, in a bigger city, uh, is going to be a challenge because there can be a lot more people on the list becomes a lot more expensive. So, um, what we’re probably going to be doing, like, in rural markets. That’s part, no problem. That’s perfectly fine because you can get a household number and there’s, 212 homes in a particular area. That’s fine. Right. But as we go, we’re, we’re going to have to, until this thing shakes down a little bit more. So, there will probably be some things, personally, I think that this may be a short term whenever I say short term within a year or two that they roll this back. We are already seeing some things and some tracking mechanisms they put in place that they’re rolling back on that we just got notified on this week and it’s been in place since I OS 23rolled out. So, this may be a short-term thing within a year to two years, they roll it back. I suspect that once they start seeing the results come through, either one, their algorithm has gotten way better at being able to see who’s out of like by default, they’re saying, ok, well, this person doesn’t live here based on their traffic patterns and the tracking they’re doing on phones and all that stuff. Or number two, they’re just going to roll about all the way. But for the meantime, we’re probably going to have to get used to for, for Facebook as being a little less effective and having some leads coming from outside or service areas. Now, there is a fix for that, but it’s not on the Facebook side. So sure. Now, just, just for my going back to the list because I think that’s really important to, to, to consider, these lists can get really, really pricey. What do you think about, uh, buying a list, let’s say, maybe that’s only had, I don’t know, 22 people, 297 people and then trying to build a look-like audience or does that look-a-like audience now? Open you right back up to the broad that Facebook has created. Yep. So, a look-like audience is perfect when you need to expand and see and get in front of more people, but it’s going to open you back up to the exact same thing because there’s no way that you can like. So, so now you’re looking at the look alike audience and saying, ok, in this area, but that doesn’t mean that like they could live there, maybe they don’t live there. So, it’s going to open you back up to that. It would be my hope that as we because this is so like this is just changing and for a lot of things, it’s not going to matter. Like if you were running e-commerce ads or things like that, that Facebook and maybe that’s where most of Facebook’s money comes from. I don’t know. But if you were looking at it just from that angle, it doesn’t really impact anything at all. So, this may be one of those things to where it’s like, oh, we’re going to double down on, on a different type of ad instead of what we would look at local lead generation, right? That’s what all of your customers and all the listeners and all the viewers are going to look at to say we need local lead generation. So, we have opportunities for jobs. So, I don’t think that creating a look like is going to fix this particular issue, but it will fix the issue, just get in front of more people, which is if you have that tolerance. And you’re saying, OK, I’ve got the budget to be able to do it. Maybe it’s going to be fine. Yeah. I, I think another, another thing that I, I, I would think you could do is possibly try and better qualify the people through obviously better, creative, better, better generation of text and, and, and that’s, that’s something where unfortunately for the DIYers that, the, the people out there who just, they just, they really don’t know what they’re doing. They know just enough to be dangerous. They, maybe they’ve read a couple of blogs and they go on, they create Facebook ads. They don’t realize it’s not just throwing out there, but a lot of it has to do with the messaging. I think that maybe even if you were to use local imagery, maybe, you, you, I mean, you just flat out, call it out, hey Miami Homeowners, something like something to that extent, um, that it’s going to catch the attention. It isn’t necessarily going to disqualify people. But hopefully, if I live in Lincoln, Nebraska and I see and I see an ad that says, hey Las Vegas homeowners or hey Miami Homeowners, I’m probably not paying attention to it. Yep. But those people are, people are dumb, or, or society is dumb. People are smart, I think is what they say so well and with, with that part of it, you’re exactly right. That your creatives, your ad copy, will like we’re going to have to lean super heavy into that to try to push people away and pull people in at the same time. So, you’re, you’re spot on. Yeah. Now, here, here’s another thing and I don’t know if we’ve gotten to this point yet, but is there a way, um, through IP address detection and May maybe Facebook isn’t, isn’t the, isn’t the platform to do this but where you can literally detect based on what, the, the city that your IP is from. Well, obviously there are ways that you can get that part of it done. I don’t know that it’s available yet in kind of like the ad blocking, right, the ad blocking or, or that type of thing because there are some things we have inside of our like fraud prevention things to where it’s like, ok, when you have bots and that kind of stuff, it largely works off of IP addresses, but there are ways to say, ok, so this is one, this is one way that you can at least help, not get leads coming through that are from far away is that if you’re going to set up a funnel with your landing page offer that has like your service offer or $2297 rebate or whatever that might be in order to incentivize people to come through. One thing that you might have to add on there on the initial form, have a name, email and phone number. You may have to add a zip code that allows it to hook up or sync up with a database or a, or a spreadsheet. That is saying, ok, here’s the zip codes we serve. If you put a zip code in that we don’t serve, you’re going to get er, a message back that says we don’t serve that area. That’s, that’s a great idea. And you and I worked together on a lot of campaigns in the past. I know one thing that you’re always big on is phone numbers and excluding area codes. And my, in this day and age with cell phones. I mean, anything that’s a US based number you’re not going to do. But, I mean, every time you see that plus seven one plus +91, all, all of these are, yeah, it’s, at the very least, you can block them and, and, and I, we’re spending a lot of time talking about how to not get leads, which is kind of the inverse of, when people come to us and they normally talk about. But at the same time, nothing sucks. the money out of a business faster than wasting your resources. So, I think it really is important. Listen, that’s the reason why this whole thing is so important in, in just this one little thing and like in the grand scheme of things, you’re sitting thinking, OK, there’s so many things that you got to worry about. There are so many things we have to look at. There’re so many things, we have to check the boxes off to make sure we have it set up properly and correctly. But this one little thing has the ability to completely derail everything that you’re trying to do from the aspect of not wasting money. Now, I know how you are and what your principles are me. I run things the same way. It’s like I run your campaigns like it’s my money, right? So, I, and, and I’ll promise you, I’m cheap. I’m, I’m, I’ve been told, my wife told me I had to start using the word thrifty, but I’m cheap. Right. So, when it comes, when it comes right down to it, that’s how we run our campaigns, we don’t want any, anybody’s money wasted. So, this has become and presented a unique circumstance that we have to work around, um, in order to continue to make Facebook work. Well, now, maybe it gets to the point like we’re so soon into this adjustment, we don’t have a lot of data back because it only impacts. So again, they started rolling out two or three weeks ago, it only impacts new campaigns. So, if you’ve already had campaigns that are running, this doesn’t change anything for you. So, if you’ve got old campaigns, they’re still going they’re now the first time you go in and update like an ad creative or copy or, or something like that. It’s going to update and then it’s going to do away with that. So, you have campaigns that that you may not want to turn those off or you may not want to change those, right? Because it’ll still stay within that. But anything new is what this is all going for and we just don’t have the data yet to see how we can combat it the best. But I, I foresee that there’s going to be some ways where we can go through and there’s going to be new tools and things developed specifically just for this. So, we don’t have to waste money on people that aren’t, aren’t in the service area anyway. But that, that, that’s definitely, one thing to consider is, you, you’ve got existing campaigns, they’re working, you don’t change. I mean, and I mean, I can’t say how many times I’ve had clients say, hey, we got to keep this fresh and, and I, and my response always is no, we don’t have to keep it fresh. We need to keep the leads rolling in. But, you know, there are ways to maybe better define your audience now so that it, it’s not because, geographic targeting it, it’s like this high level up here, but we really want to be down here. there’s a lot of different places in the buying journey that, that somebody may be. So, what, what are some of the ways that you’re looking at now too, to really dial in the audience and make sure that you’re even pitching to the right to the right person? Yeah. So that’s a really good question. And this, and I’m going to bring up a couple of things that most people completely forget about whenever they’re going to create their ads. So, if you’re doing it yourself, you’re probably in this boat. Most people are so, don’t feel bad And I’m going to increase or I’m going to show you rather a way that you can start leveraging some AI tools artificial intelligence don’t freak out about it. It’s not going to take over the world or anything. But one of the things, there’s a, there’s a tool in that’s available that’s free called Chat GP. T if you, if you’ve never heard about it, it’s fun to go just kind of mess around with it, sign up for an account. But one of the things that we do with it is we want to try to focus on finding avatars and that by avatar, I mean, just the, the basically a persona that we try to run ads to because, and I’ll unpack this a little bit, but we have to know who we’re running ads to in order to communicate effectively with the right language and to choose the right interest targeting when we get to that point. Right? So, what we want to do is we want to take chat GPT, and we want, want to explain to us like, hi.my name is John. I run a company called kitchen remodeling experts and we remodel kitchens in the 50 to $100,000 range. And this is what we specialize in from a cabinet standpoint to install shaker cabinets from modern or whatever that might look like. So, you’re going to explain all of this stuff and put it in one paragraph, then you’re going to space down and you’re going to say I need you to create three personas of people that are most likely, looking for the types of services that we offer. And what chat GPT is going to do is it’s going to create three personas. It’ll give you the name, the age, the types of things that they’re in or that they’re interested in. Now, if it doesn’t, sometimes because you’re, you’re basically programming a computer with your natural language. That’s what, that’s what the whole point of chat GP T is. So sometimes you find out it’s like, OK, spits back out a persona but doesn’t have details. So, then you just go back in, it’s like a chat bot or just like you just sit there and chat with it. OK? And you go back and it’s like, oh, well, could you tell me the things that they are most afraid of whenever they’re get, considering getting a kitchen a model? Can you tell me the things that they want to feel like? And all of these things as they start stacking up? There’re two things for you. One, it allows you to know how to communicate with that person or at least as a test. And number two, it gives you kind of the framework of maybe the different types of ads that you may need. So, I’ll give you a primary example. Let’s just say that chat GP T says that your persona, your perfect customer type is going to be a woman aged 35 to 55. She’s married with two kids, college educated, and she likes HGTV. She likes the National Enquire and she likes to watch Housewives Hot Housewives of Atlanta. I don’t even know if that’s a real show, but let’s just say that it is right. So, then you can go back through and say, ok, now in Facebook, we’ve got our geo-targeting available, we’re going to go ahead and drop those things in, but we want to narrow that down a little bit to only our perfect customer types. We’re going to start using those and layering those interests in to say, ok, I need females 973 to 55 that have kids that are under 18, right? Because that’s, that’s some targeting just one. I mean, one thing I think it’s important to know too a lot, not everybody is in an area that you are in an industry you can do this with, right? Because Facebook does have restrictions, especially when it comes to fair housing, right? So, if you’re a real estate agent, if you’re in the medical field, if you’re in the legal field, places like that, you can’t discriminate. One of the things that I’ve noticed recently though is Facebook confuses people who are in the home services with people who are selling homes. So that’s something that I think you do come across and it might be a little bit of a challenge. Well, there’s going to be, there’s going to be a couple of reasons for that to some degree. It usually comes down to language recognition, right? A lot of times, um, we will use terminology in our ads that have duplicate meaning. So, I’ll give you an example. A lot of you guys will say, hey, we’ve got three jobs lined up for new decks. What it, what it’s seeing it as is you have three and, and potentially you have three deck jobs people that you need to hire in. And so now it’s going to go under the hiring, uh, special category, right? So, there’s little things like that that happen from time to time that if it does happen, you don’t really, you don’t really have to worry about it on that, that particular note, right? So one of the things I’m hearing is, don’t mark yourself as, look, k your model job, we, we’re, we’re going to do the next kit, looking for the next model job because what Facebook might hear is, oh, you’re actually trying to hire somebody for, or you’re looking to, an employment situation. What do you do though? If that comes out of me? You basically excluded them from targeting based on the age based on all these protected classes or I mean, is there a way around that? No, I mean, you just, um, you just go through and you’re just going to have to appeal it, right? So, it’s going to give you options where you can just appeal it. And it’s going to say, well, why do you want to appeal it? You can say, I think it was confusing. We don’t have, we do not have jobs available. This is not an employment ad; this is a job that is promoting services. And a lot of times you will get somebody on board that will, um, that will bring in and, and adjust that. But it’s just as simple as hitting the appeal button on that particular part, right? So, what you’re saying basically is we still have human beings involved and it’s not all, just A I, we’re not, we’re not, that’s a good question. I’m not, I can’t tell you with certainty if that next level is a person or not. I, I suspect that there is a, there is a tougher front end and then it goes into a secondary A I, that’s maybe a little looser and then at some point if you continue, if you continue with it, it, it goes into a person. I know they’ve got chat support and that kind of suffers from the business, um, business support when you’re running ads so that you can have a person. Look at it. It’s funny. I, I’m friends with a lot of people who are in the writing space and, and all of them keep telling me the robots are taking over, I’m going to lose my job. The robots are taking, and you know what? They’re not really taking; the robots are enhancing you. But that’s, that’s exactly what you’re talking about there. Yeah. And, and that’s a, and that’s a really good, and that is a really good point to where, does a, I get to the point to where it can run your ads for you. Um, maybe at some point but I still, I don’t think that it will do anything without you being able to directly, pilot it or program it is depending on what you, depending on how you look at that. But we’re probably, we’re talking years and years away. So, the very first things we want, but it’s ok because we can still use A, I to help us define who we want to talk to. And then it’ll help you write ads; it’ll help you do a lot of different things. Right now, I’ll be the first one to tell you that most of the time the output that you get is not something that’s typically usable in terms of like straight out. But what we will do is we’ll have ours, that’s why we have copywriters is that we actually now can take it, it’ll produce 50 it’ll get it in the 50 to 70% range and then we can go in and actually do the things that it takes to make it work better. And that includes, we talk about targeting in this, in this episode specifically, but that includes helping us be able to define who we’re talking to and what we need to say to them, to persuade them to take the next action. That’s the next thing that I, I’ll tell you, that’s the, and I, this is a little off topic, but I’ll tell you that’s the one thing that if you could do anything for your viewers is make sure that they’re not expecting too much of the ads. Most ads. What you want to do, your, the purpose of the ads is for them to take the next step. So, for example, if you are in a position where you are offering consultants design sessions, free estimates, anything like that. Keep in mind that that ad may not be the single step from clicking on the ad to booking a booking an estimate in. They may be looking for more information, they may be there. There’s a, a whole bunch of things that can happen in between like, so for example, in my, in my world, what I would think is the ad is supposed to generate a click to opt in and then my next page or landing page or follow up funnel or follow up messaging is the thing that can push them over because now I can share more. I’m not limited in what I can share. I can, I can show them spotlight projects. I can, I can introduce myself on video and get face time. Like there’s so and an established trust, there’s so many things that we can do on the back end. So just keep that in mind as you’re going through and you’re talking to these people that A I have helped you define now, we just want to make sure we take the right next step and just don’t expect too much down the line. if anything is with the A I thought, you can actually start maybe using different, different goals. for example, when you’re dealing with messenger campaigns and Facebook, the A I, you, you, if you can, you build it out smart enough, it can mimic that human interaction to at least some extent. And a lot of people don’t even know one of the tricks I learned a couple of years ago with mini cha, which was one of the first technologies to do. This is, when someone asks a question, hit that dot dot And then have it pause for like 8 to 10 seconds, the same as like when a human being is typing and you see that on your phone and the average person is, oh, I’m actually talking to a person. They’re not just auto responding. So, you can really make those, the A I can be really intelligent. Um, and with all the conditional logic, I mean, now you can, like you said, the ad is to get them to engage and now they engage with your chat on, you, you get, you get a little bit of information and then they can, you can even do a live transfer to a person. So now maybe you’ve got, 92nd heads up, hey, someone’s about to come on, I got my mouth full of food because it’s 12 30 in the afternoon and I better swallow and get ready. Cool. So, there’s a lot of things that AI will, will be able to do but, to kind of round out the conversation from a targeting perspective. Um, there’s going to be little things that you’ve got to take advantage of, but just make sure right now that you’re putting in your exclusion audiences, make sure that you’re using custom audiences. So that would be like, people that are leads already, but they haven’t purchased yet. So, you can show ads just to them, they’re going to be in the right spots, right? And then if you do get into doing, look like audiences to expand those, um, or you’re just trying to go broad, right? And we, when we say broad, we’re trying to show it in our, in our area as much as possible. Um, the exclusion on that, exclude as much as what you can and for the most part that’s about and, and I’m sorry, take care of ad copy and your creatives, right? To make sure that you’re calling people out. Hey, Saint Louis homeowners, if they traveled there and they’re not a Saint Louis homeowner. Let’s, let’s hope that we were strong enough in, in what we said. They’re like, oh, that’s not for me. And they just keep right on going. That’s, that’s awesome. Josh, you just dropped some huge knowledge bombs on the audience today. I want to thank you for that. I, I, I think that a lot of these people, a lot of the folks out there, they’re going to hear this, they’re going to say, you know what? I was making that mistake. I, I wasn’t doing this. I wasn’t thinking of that and maybe now they are, um, for those people though who really, decide, you know what, it’s just too much for me. I can’t, my job is to run the business. I want to, I want to be a remodeler. I want to be a plumber. I want to be an electrician but not, I’m not a marketer. I don’t want to deal with this. I only want to turn on the damn computer. They want to hire somebody. I mean, oftentimes we’ll talk, kitchen people, bad people, they talk to us at kitchen mall. But if somebody wants to get the training, they want to learn a little more about how to do it. Um, how would they get a hold of you? How could they learn a little bit more about that? Sure. They can just hop over to adavior.com. And, uh, and we’ve got a coaching and, and support program there. It’s not, we do have recordings. We do have quote / unquote courses, but that’s not what it’s there for. Um, in that particular case, what the best thing that you could do is if you, if you or you already have a marketing team that is currently doing things and you just want to, like, it would be like having a senior advisor really sitting there saying, ok, our campaigns are stuck. What do we do here? What’s, what’s our next steps or in your case, you’re new, you’re trying to do this yourself, but you really don’t know where to go with it. Um, it’s something that’s affordable, at, uh, I think our monthly membership fees are 2 97 a month and it’s like, listen, go, try to find a senior marketing strategist for $297 a month. It’s going to be a little difficult to find one. I’ll promise you because, uh, we’ve hired, listen, let’s just, I’ll just leave it at that. But as you go through, it’s literally just to help people get unstuck and have somebody there that says, ok, what do we need to do here? And then you’ve got some expert guidance there for that. If you have any questions though, you can reach out to us right there or Josh at adavior.com. Fantastic. Well, Josh, I want to thank you for coming on the show. I’m sure that everyone who’s been listening today is just gaining a ton of information here. I’d love to have you back soon. I mean, you and I work close enough together. I think that’s not going to be an issue, but, truthfully, truthfully push comes to shove with the way the changes are happening right now. There’s going to be plenty of opportunities. No, no doubt, we, we got to have you come back on to talk about, YouTube shorts and what, on TikTok and Google ads and all that. So, we, we’ll, we’ll do that soon. But, um, for today and I think this is, this, this has been great. For those of you who are, who are watching, don’t forget to tune in next week. We actually have a fantastic podcast with one of the premier content writers on the planet. His name is Joe. He’s going to be here next week. Check out, check out the Facebook page, you get a little more information on that. But for Josh Wheeler from Mike Goldstein, this is the Crushing with Kitchen Modeling podcast. Thanks so much and see you next week.

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